Curse

Diddy bow · Jul 08, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Anyone who has ever farmed spiders in elona will know that the aoe bug exists...

Yawgmoth · Jul 08, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

There are so many blatantly false statements in the OP and responses that it would be better to completely remove it. All I can say is: first do some extensive testing, in various places with various buils, then post results. And that the whole loot scaling isn't really working as intended, the drops are lowered significantly only for first 1-3 groups killed in an instance, then they go up (if you AoE then they may not go up at all) to 50-90%+ (depending on the area).

manitoba1073 · Jul 08, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

There are so many blatantly false statements in the OP and responses that it would be better to completely remove it. All I can say is: first do some extensive testing, in various places with various buils, then post results. And that the whole loot scaling isn't really working as intended, the drops are lowered significantly only for first 1-3 groups killed in an instance, then they go up (if you AoE then they may not go up at all) to 50-90%+ (depending on the area).

Ok then tell me where im wrong, But Im not wrong. Loot Scalling is based on full party sizes. Heres straight from the official wikki

Loot scaling
From Guild Wars Wiki
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Warning: Key elements of this article are incomplete. You can help the Guild Wars Wiki by expanding it.
Loot scaling was introduced in the April 19, 2007 game update. The amount of drops you get are scaled to your party size.
The following are affecting by loot scaling:

Common (white) items
Gold
The following are exempt from loot scaling:

Skill Tomes
Scrolls
Dye
Rare materials, such as Ectoplasm
Gemstones from the Domain of Anguish
All other rare (gold) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items

So where am I wrong. In an 8 man area the loot scaling is based on 8 people thus 8 of 8 is 100% - 6 man area is 6 of 6 is 100% - 4 man area is 4 of 4 is 100% . Again alot of you have been trying to say Im wrong without showing proof. Ive provided the proof numerous times. Now we also know that everything has a drop. Whether its an item or even a drop of nothing. As Ive said before flip a quarter 10-100 times no matter how many times you get heads you chance is still 50%.

countesscorpula · Jul 08, 2007, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinn

What about the "anti-nuke" code that is clearly in effect at the moment?

Just to recap - if a lot of monsters die at the same time, the amount of drops from these monsters is significantly reduced compared to what you would get had you killed them one at a time.

This has been proved as one of the mechanisms in place as part of loot scaling.

As an example of this, my dervish was killing nagas in the 4th dragon fest quest, and got a drop for pretty near every monster she killed in a mob. She was using her scythe and taking them on one at a time (some times two with adjacent). So, a mob of 6 yielded 4-5 drops. My necro killed an entire mob in one blow (icy veins) and would get one drop... from a mob of 6. Both went in solo. Both on the same day, with no builds being installed inbetween. So why does one get 1 drop, and the other gets 4-5? Makes a pretty good question.

Nemo the Capitalist · Jul 09, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

OK Ill try to explain it as simple as possible. Since some people are confused alot on how Loot Scaling actually works while soloing and not soloing.

First all drops are random.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

That is just the effects of Loot Scalling alone on soloing, with HM involved the only difference is you have a higher chance on the exemptions dropping instead of whites. In NM Its similar without the higher chance of exemptions dropping, while still being exempt.

Now for the rest of it.

Loot Scaling had NO EFFECT on its own except lower drop rates for less than max groups.Dont believe me look at the first 12 hours it was driving prices on everything up, then Anerf had a OH %^$& moment, and added the exemptions list is what allowed the prices to come down by increasing supply.

With HM the only difference is that the chance for drops from the exemptions list is increased.

So for all those out there that thinks it was Loot Scaling that helped you, you are wrong, it was the exemptions list.

Also mods try to leave this stickied so people dont get confused on Loot Scalling anymore.

HE GOT HIS stats off Kramers mad money

manitoba1073 · Jul 09, 2007, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo the Capitalist

HE GOT HIS stats off Kramers mad money

And yet another confused person. Since posting the crap from Official wikki Ill just give you the links.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates:April_2007 feel free to read it.

MsMassacre · Jul 09, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Re the reduced drops via nuking;

Ever kill a bunch of mobs at once in a full party? Notice how the loot is for a bunch of different people? Notice how 5 mobs who all die at once never drop 5 things all for the same player?

If this is true, then there must be some random bias within the loot code to discourage multiple drops going to one person within a short time. Not PREVENT, discourage. Let's call it the "spread bias" cuz it biases the drops to spread among multiple party members if they happen all at once.

If spread bias is true, and loot scaling is true, then a solo farmer will get less drops killing mobs all at once than one at a time.

Eldin · Jul 09, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Stats are so confusing. The way I learnt it is...

An 8 party zone with a full party = probability of a drop going to you is 1/8. Now with loot scaling, it remains 1/8, rather than the former probability of 1.

Etctera for other sizes.

Kinn is right. Maybe it's coincidence but some findings have found multiple deaths at once to lessen quality/quantity of drops.

The point is this:

ANet claims loot scaling helps the casual people, as far as I can tell it does not in the least, they now expect you to farm HM now if you want to afford a pair of pants, bread, water, and a cardboard box to live under. Such farming is now awesome for 55ers - a monk division I just HATE. When will they die? Because I know if I ever, EVER give in to temptation and make one myself, they will be nerfed.

acidic · Jul 09, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

LOL, please bots doesnt even get affected. I Just jump through to elona reach ID and theres bots, bots and more bots. Same in euro/english servers. And dont forget all the other spots; bergen bot springs, granite citadel.

LOOT scaling does jack to even slow down the bots, and most bots gotten smarter and run multiple setup so it doesn't even matter to them

Onarik Amrak · Jul 09, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Statistics can be made to prove anything, 40% of all people know that.

Amy Awien · Jul 09, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Ok then tell me where im wrong

You made up the numbers and presented them as if they were the results of tests. It doesn't matter whether you based your numbers on statements from ANet or not, you made up numbers and presented them as empirical data. That is where you went wrong.

manitoba1073 · Jul 09, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You made up the numbers and presented them as if they were the results of tests. It doesn't matter whether you based your numbers on statements from ANet or not, you made up numbers and presented them as empirical data. That is where you went wrong.

I did not make them up. A full group of people will get a 100% chance all the damn drops. Loot Scaling is based ON PARTY SIZE. An area for 8 people max in party. 8 of 8 is equal to 100% while a single person in that same full group has only a 12.5% chance at every drop. And we know that Gaile has said a soloer will get roughly twice (double) what a single person in a full group will get. Thats makes it roughly 25% for a soloer in an 8 man area. And you can go down the list of maximum party member areas from there. Just cause your not seeming to get it, doesnt mean its not right there in front of you. Its the same as the chance of getting heads on a quarter on every flip. No matter what the hell you get or how many times you get heads or tails your chance to get t remains the same 50%. I did not make the numbers up nor present them as empirical data. They are plain and simple math equations. Math does not make itself up. Reread the OFFICIAL WIKKI ARTICLE OR EVEN THE ON SITE UPDATE NOTES. Heres from the official site too just to help you.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2007-04.php

Now I want you to tell me and everyone else does it say Loot now scales according to party size.

shanaya · Jul 09, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

I did not make them up. A full group of people will get a 100% chance all the damn drops. Loot Scaling is based ON PARTY SIZE. An area for 8 people max in party. 8 of 8 is equal to 100% while a single person in that same full group has only a 12.5% chance at every drop. And we know that Gaile has said a soloer will get roughly twice (double) what a single person in a full group will get. Thats makes it roughly 25% for a soloer in an 8 man area. And you can go down the list of maximum party member areas from there. Just cause your not seeming to get it, doesnt mean its not right there in front of you. Its the same as the chance of getting heads on a quarter on every flip. No matter what the hell you get or how many times you get heads or tails your chance to get t remains the same 50%. I did not make the numbers up nor present them as empirical data. They are plain and simple math equations. Math does not make itself up. Reread the OFFICIAL WIKKI ARTICLE OR EVEN THE ON SITE UPDATE NOTES. Heres from the official site too just to help you.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2007-04.php

Now I want you to tell me and everyone else does it say Loot now scales according to party size.

....but in practice it doesn't always work this way. As an example, I often take my dervish on solo trips through Gates of Kryta Mission, killing undead. And I mean solo, no heroes or henchies. This is a 6 man area and yet I get pretty near a drop from every creature killed. Its not quite 100%, but very close. I do this trip often, because it is easy (oink is a great free tank!) and moderately lucrative (1 - 2 k in 15 minutes) , and it is always the same.

Amy Awien · Jul 09, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

I did not make them up.

Yes, you did. These are the numbers you posted:

Quote:

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

And those are the numbers you made up, 25% is the number one would find following the sources you used, but 24%, 28%, 32%, 40%, 48% and 56% are all numbers you made up, presented them as if they were empirical data and that is the deception. You can scream all you want about math and other things you know nothing about, or claim that I don't get it, but it's still fraud.

Caoimhe · Jul 09, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

100% certain that there's no other Mesmer lingerarmor because it was determined that males would never leave the towns and outposts unless they took a Mesmer with them. And if they took a Mesmer with them, everyone would get wiped by things like Whiptail Devourers because the guys would still be focused exclusively on the Mesmer's attributes - and I don't mean the amount of points in Fast Casting.

Age · Jul 09, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanaya

....but in practice it doesn't always work this way. As an example, I often take my dervish on solo trips through Gates of Kryta Mission, killing undead. And I mean solo, no heroes or henchies. This is a 6 man area and yet I get pretty near a drop from every creature killed. Its not quite 100%, but very close. I do this trip often, because it is easy (oink is a great free tank!) and moderately lucrative (1 - 2 k in 15 minutes) , and it is always the same.

What mode did you do it in as I could get the same basically?They would be all white maybe the odd blue and a few gold but the Gates is no longer a place to make a decent amount of gold it might be in hard mode but not normal.Why do you have a problem accepting what this person is saying as he is taking what Gaile has said and applied it?What I would ask is this hard mode or normal then take it from there?It is not like he trying to sent you up the wrong river or road just the opposite or why go through the effort of making this thread up.

Btw in the real world you only use 5 to 10% of the math you learn in university.

DarkGanni · Jul 10, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Loot scaling also thaught me that killing small groups gives more drops than a large group.

Pro Master · Jul 10, 2007, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

OK Ill try to explain it as simple as possible. Since some people are confused alot on how Loot Scaling actually works while soloing and not soloing.

First all drops are random.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

That is just the effects of Loot Scalling alone on soloing, with HM involved the only difference is you have a higher chance on the exemptions dropping instead of whites. In NM Its similar without the higher chance of exemptions dropping, while still being exempt.

Now for the rest of it.

Loot Scaling had NO EFFECT on its own except lower drop rates for less than max groups.Dont believe me look at the first 12 hours it was driving prices on everything up, then Anerf had a OH %^$& moment, and added the exemptions list is what allowed the prices to come down by increasing supply.

With HM the only difference is that the chance for drops from the exemptions list is increased.

So for all those out there that thinks it was Loot Scaling that helped you, you are wrong, it was the exemptions list.

Also mods try to leave this stickied so people dont get confused on Loot Scalling anymore.

Thats all somewhat BS plz dont post things u have no understanding about if this was ture alot of people will be ricer and items/armors/weapons will not cost so much also people like farmers that make real money will be selling for alot cheap then it use to be. ><

manitoba1073 · Jul 10, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Master

Thats all somewhat BS plz dont post things u have no understanding about if this was ture alot of people will be ricer and items/armors/weapons will not cost so much also people like farmers that make real money will be selling for alot cheap then it use to be. ><

Have you not been playing the game, and did you not read what I posted. Seriously. Reread it. It will help. And these will help yet again
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2007-04.php
taken from there is this
-Hard Mode Loot
The average number of uncommon and rare items has been increased in Hard mode.

What that means is simple supply of items have risen while the cost of things have gone down, But that wasnt due to Loot scalling. That was due to HM and the exemptions list.

Here is what Loot Scalling did do-

Miscellaneous
Loot now scales according to party size.
Repeated map entry no longer reduces loot.

That is all under the official site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Yes, you did. These are the numbers you posted:
And those are the numbers you made up, 25% is the number one would find following the sources you used, but 24%, 28%, 32%, 40%, 48% and 56% are all numbers you made up, presented them as if they were empirical data and that is the deception. You can scream all you want about math and other things you know nothing about, or claim that I don't get it, but it's still fraud.

No they are not made up, they are given a leeway. But since you dont wanna do the math here you go. 1/8=12.5% 1/6=16.6% 1/4=25.0% 1/2=50% now thats the hard numbers. I gave a leeway to them. is all now those numbers double since a solo player could and should make twice as much according to gaile will 1/8=12.5% x 2 = 25%(24%-28%) 1/6=16.6% x 2 = 33.2%(32%-40%) 1/4=25% x 2 = 50%(48%-56%) 1/2=50% x 2 = 100%(98%) with the leeways in parentheses. So spank you come again. The Numbers are taken from what the max number of ppl is which is what the hell Loot Scalling is based on.

Amy Awien · Jul 10, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Your so called 'leeway' is nonsense and please don't tell me I don't want to do the math, I did them more often then you could even count, always have. Besides, it doesn't take more math then what you learn in primary school to calculate that 1/4 = 25%.

You are making numbers up, 25% is not the 24%-28% you pulled out of the air. By posting these numbers it appeared you did some real testing, which you haven't done. So, that is why you're a fraud, because you make up numbers. It doesn't help you to talk down to me while you are in error.